Convincing The Atheist

In this episode of The Extremely Rational Podcast (“The E.R.”), Alden steps into the role of an atheist and asks honest, direct questions about faith, doubt, and God. Pastor Anthony responds with clarity, truth, and compassion, addressing the kinds of questions many people wrestle with but don’t always voice. A real and thoughtful conversation for both believers and skeptics.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Hello, hello, hello. This is the Extremely Rational Podcast. My name is Downtown Brown. Downtown Brown. And you are PA. PA. Master Anthony with us. Hey, so this is the Extremely Rational Podcast. We call it that because PA is pretty extreme. I tend to be rational. And again, sometimes sometimes that's not exactly the case, but um very rational. We want to be your ER. Emotional. No, that's not true. What did I just say? Extremely, extremely rational. ER. We want to be the ER. And yeah, we want to freaking help you. We want to help you. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Balder's having problems today. He just threw up seven times projectile. He fell off the roof. He'll be fine. I'll be fine. Humpty Dumpty. They're putting them back together as we speak.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Do I look good? I feel phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

But we freaking want you to know how loved you are and how much hope we have in our Lord Jesus for you. We will be in ER.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

You need a laugh, you need prayer, you need scriptures. We gotcha. So anyway, that's who we are, but we always open up with the open mic statement.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Will you show everybody how foolish you can be?

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Honestly, I think I've proven quite the opposite. Yeah, I know. Okay. But it's it's just a segment for us that is uh an opportunity for us to share something that we feel strongly about, anything old random thing. Here's my thing. Uh recently it's been a lot of sports-related things. Um obviously, you and I are massive uh sports fans in general and athletes ourselves and competitors. I am last uh episode I talked about um what I love about baseball that I wish was in more games, but I want to go right back to baseball again, so please hang with me because this one's good.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Go Yankees.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Speaking of the Yankees, it was Joe Girardi who just said this on a broadcast that I couldn't agree more. I agree with what he said, but also I want to take it a step further because it's something I've been talking about for years amongst the game. Shout out to Joe. So thank you, Joe Girardi. There was a play at the plate in which a player slid in feet first and um almost hurt himself doing so, um, but was able to touch the plate with his toe and was safe. But what Joe Gerardi simply said was he said, I think that you should have the right to the plate aerially. So if you cross over the top of the plate, even though you don't touch it, but you beat the throw, you're you're safe. Because it's a flat plate, it's not a bag, it's not elevated. And he said, if this was at a base, I'd sorry guys, I may go to sleep for a couple of minutes.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I will wake up when it's over.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Hang with me. Hang with me.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Flying with you right over the base.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Keep flying over those baits. First of all, you should slide head first every time. Yes. Always.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Anyone who ever tells you you get to a base quicker sliding than diving, you've lost your mind. You're completely wrong. Watch one, one Olympic sprinter. If you ever see him dive into the tape, I will give you everything I have and on their mind. They all lean forward, they're all diving to get there faster.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

You made a mistake when you said they do dive into the tape, they don't slide on their feet into the tape. Okay, what did I say? You said they don't dive into the tape. They do. That's the point. No, no, no. Slide into it. I'm sorry. They don't slide. You are you're but you're right. Um I mean it's it's so clear.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

You're going backwards when you slide. It doesn't even make any sense. Your body's going to go.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

It slows you down. It's harder to control your foot than it is your hands. Correct. And not only that, but look, if there's a ball in the gap, why does the fielder dive headfirst to catch it? Because he couldn't make it by just running. It always gets you there faster. Yes. Diving headfirst is the most effective way. Plus, at the at home plate, again, it's a flat plate, and catchers are not allowed to block home plate. Correct. Until they have the ball. Until they have the ball. So all you have to do is dive head first and then touch the point of the plate with your left hand, and you're going to be safe. No, it's not foolish. It's a great point by Joe Girardi is that because it's a flat surface, it's really difficult, really difficult, to touch home plate when coming in at 100 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Especially may go up a little, especially your foot might just beat up a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

All the other bases are bases, they're called a base, because they're elevated. So it's a lot easier to touch those. Correct. Um, so I think he's right there. I think baseball should look at that, especially with replay the way it is. They have a camera right on top of the plate. It's very easy to tell.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Don't you have this coverage issue at second two that you feel if your foot just a little goes over? You're covering the whole base.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Correct. So this is where I'm going. So I love that somebody of you know high standing in baseball, a World Series champion coach, is making a similar point that I've always made, because no way I've never heard anybody make it. I I never made it about home plate. I love the point. I agree with it. That if you cross over the top of home plate, even if you don't touch it, you should be safe. The thing is flat. It's very difficult to touch it.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Ask how what is the distance? What if my foot's up here?

SPEAKER_02 5:21

I don't think it should matter at all. Who cares?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

My foot's three feet in the air. You're safe. Yeah, because you've lost your mind.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

You clearly got to the same about second?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Third, you feel at any.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

No, so I feel differently about the bags, and so does Joe Girardi. And here's my belief in what I've always said, and I'm going to try to make my point now, is I believe that if you beat a throw or a tag to a base and you beat it and you touch that base, physically do touch it, and so therefore you're safe. If you then come off of it and you're above it, you should remain safe if you're above it.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

And I think that's easily policed now, especially with cameras and replay.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

And you know every guy just keeps the glove right on your whole body and watching you and so often a guy will slide in a second on a steal. Stephen Costell agree with you on that one.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Yeah, he'll hit the base. He's safe. His foot comes up. Yeah, his foot comes up, but he's still over the base. And they kept the tag on him. He's out. It's like that's not what that's supposed to be. He clearly won't be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Wouldn't you think that might be hard to regulate, though? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

With the amount of cameras and the replays they have today, I think it's easy enough to tell.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Would you run for commissioner of baseball? Right away. Give me that chance. Right now. Right now. Right now. You'd write the door. You'd leave the podcast right this second if it if you got a call. Move over, Manfred. And that hurts my heart. I know, but I would have made a lot of expensive. First of all, I'm by myself. I'd bring you along with me.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

How am I going to do this? We would do an incredible uh, we would have a whole new audience.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Downtown Brown. And not only am I going to Commissioner. Well, I've started with the righties and lefties. I will clean this game up. Babe Booth won't know this game by the time I'm done with it. That's right. He will wish he was born in 2026 when Alden Brown became the commissioner of Major League Baseball.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

And not only am I going to enhance things in terms of getting lefties and righties right and some of the rules on how we're safe and out at basically.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

You took your meds today?

SPEAKER_02 7:16

I'm going to get the uniforms a lot.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

The blues, the purples, the greens.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Oh, my wife loves that with you. Who's coming up with her stuff? What are you wearing? What is this? And I, you know, I'm not going to rag on my own team right now. But, you know, there's some choices they've made and some modifications to the uniforms that are baffling.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Can I tell you a little bit about my wife? Yeah. So I've been watching with her 50 years. Love you, Catsy. My wife's watching a sporting event is commercials and the fans. She doesn't care who's playing, she doesn't care the score. So it was a few years ago, and I believe it was the Mets that that real incredible series that Alonzo won. She finds a woman called Front Row Amy on the Milwaukee Brewers. And she said, Have you noticed this woman's at every game? No, I'm watching a freaking baseball game. Number one. Number two, no. I know you say she's right. Well, I just looked her up, just so you know. And her name is Front Row Amy. And she drives calf, I get I think an hour and a half each way to every single home game. Best fan. What team? The Brewers. Isn't that who you beat with Alonzo? Am I correct? Uh-huh. Yes. She met Front Row Amy that serious. And she is in love with Front Row Amy. In love with her. She can meet her. Her and Shannon Hogan are her. I'm giving it all to you. She's madly in love with Shannon Hogan.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Does she know the Marlins man? No. So the Marlins man is at every big sporting event.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Directly on camera in a bright orange Marlins jersey. Patsy. Okay, so you'll see him every big, big baseball game for sure. I've seen him behind the glass at UBS Arena at Islanders games, big at playoff games. You will find the Marlins man. He is uh he was like owns his own law firm or something like that. He's a mega millionaire, and he spends his money and his time traveling to every big sporting event. If it's game seven of the World Series, he's behind home plate. If it's uh What is he? Marlins Man. Marlins Man Catsy. He's wearing a blue, I'm sorry, a bright orange Marlin.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

He's always bright orange. Always. Wherever you go.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yep. Same jersey. At a Systera. Um World Baseball Classic. There he was, right behind home plate. Uh he's he's at every big game you can imagine. There he is. So check him out. He's that's pretty funny. So anyway, I think you should be safe. I agree with Joe Girardi. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Commissioner, I will call you Commissioner. Very good job, Commissioner. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

You're welcome. Do you think in two or three years we're gonna look back at baseball today and go, wasn't it weird when they had to like challenge uh a whether it was a ball or a strike? Do you think we're gonna move that quickly into like it's just automated? And so it was like kind of weird that we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

I really don't know. And I I hate to say this to the fans, I'm not a big baseball guy, and so I'm very extreme, and you know me. I don't even watch it with sound on. That's for sure. Uh totally extreme. I'd rather be in my hot tub, I'd rather be in my backyard. You could do both. Yeah, not as well. Especially when your teams continually lose.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

And um from a Yankee fan.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

But yeah, I would yes. Um I would um I would say that I'm very curious five to ten years. I'm very curious, and this will segue us into uh hopefully what the world's gonna be like in five to ten years between AI and the way everything is freaking I'm a 70-year-old man, yeah, it this this world is is flying, and I believe it's biblical. I believe certainly when Daniel was talking, he said uh in the last days wisdom would increase, but I'm talking all types of wisdom. Yes. And I believe true wisdom will glorify God and uh man will try to use it and corrupt it. Oh, yeah, which is what I think we really should talk about. The corruption of if you want to use the word religion. I personally don't like religion, especially with pertaining to my God. Seeing that I've had a woman for 50 years and we don't have a religion, I don't see her for three hours on Sunday and say, honey, I'll see you next week. Right. That's religion. Yeah, and no, I have a relationship with my wife. How would I have anything less with my God?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

And I mean, he quite literally says true religion is this that you'd care for the orphan and the widow. Correct real relationship.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Correct. Helping people, loving people, being kind to people. That's our God. And somehow he's got this bad rap, and I think that's what we need to talk about. We want to let you know the true God who we serve, and um and the false God of religion, and really man. Man sucks. When man gets his hand on politics and government, school, he corrupts everything.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah. Even religion. So I want to play the atheist or play the non-believer, unbeliever, um, to you. And so I'll start right there and say, well, then why would he do this? You're telling me there's one God. Yep. Uh three persons. Okay, in three persons, yeah, which is a mystery. Okay, already. You know, that's tr that's troubling for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

I I I don't I don't understand that, but well, a glass of water is a glass of water, is that correct? Yes. You put it in the freezer, what is it? Ice. Still water. Correct. You put it in a tea. What does it become? Steam. Still water. So those are three types of water. All the same thing. And but they're all different. This is our God. He he has expressed himself as a father, as a son, and as a spirit. The father was the Old Testament who was leading a people who really would be the people who would bring his son, the Messiah, and um the son would leave his spirit. So all three had a very big part in what we call the revelation of God.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

So why in the world, um, according to you, Mr. Christian, why would he make this? If he's somebody who knew that uh it was gonna be this painful, and you know, and all people were gonna like not even believe in him or whatever. Like there's all this horrible things happening.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Great question. Why would he do that? So I'll answer it twice. First one, I'll say if I was a CEO, I'd be much better than him. That's what I thought. Everybody's going to heaven, no sin, perfect. Unfortunately, I'm not God, I'm not righteous, I'm not holy, and I'm not loving. And so I have a daughter at home. If I had my way, she would be in a cage so she could never sin. And I would carry her around life, and she can't make mistakes, and nobody can hurt her. It's not reality, and it's not love. So, to answer your question, before the world was, there were three persons father, son, and spirit. I believe they had a convening and they said, We have this eternal love. What are we gonna do with it? We have to share it. Even if no one accepts it, it's not holy to not offer it and just withhold it. And so we created man, and you know, we can debate and you guys can debate, but clearly the earth is the only place we know that has this incredible humans on it. Everything else we study, and I'm not, I don't want to get into it, but we'll get into what we know, and that is the humans that are on this earth. And it started with Adam and Eve, that I would share this love, and I told them, because it's love, I have to give you a free will. Or it's not love, it's control. You're robots. I can't do that. It's not just, it's not right, it's not love. This is how he demonstrated his love that I created you to partake of my love, and when you rejected my love, I died for you to come back to my love. And people have a problem with that. People have a problem with that. What I try to say to them, what's blocking this love? I understand this world is traumatic. Maybe your dad was, maybe your mom, maybe the church was, but he was never. Stop it. A quick story, and I'm not against the Catholic Church, it's just a quick story that I have that's very dear to my heart. My mom went to Catholic Church every day from the age of seven. They called her Holy Mary. They thought she was gonna be a nun. She wound up not, thank God. She had children, or else I wouldn't be here. But she got divorced, and that place kicked her out, and she never got over it. She died at 92, and my hand to God, she I hope she's in heaven, I pray. She never got over. How could a place that I went to for almost 30 years at my lowest point say they represent God and kick me out? They didn't, Mom. Man kicked you out. They didn't represent God, because God is love. He would never kick you out. That is man, man, institution, and man sucks. It's in John 3, about 18 and 19, it said, here's the judgment upon the world, that the light has come to the world, Jesus. But men like darkness more than light because men suck, or man's deeds are evil. Pick whichever one you want. Every problem on this earth that the world or even the church blames God on is man, and you can look exactly where man did it and see where he corrupted it, and God had nothing to do with it. So did that answer your question?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Yeah, it answered it, but I have more. I'm sitting here wondering a couple of things. You know, there's apparently heaven and hell. And so if I don't believe in Jesus that he's actually God and or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

He's the only way. Why is he the only way?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

But if I don't believe, then I then I I I go to hell. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

It doesn't seem like a god, like why would a loving God do that?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

He didn't put you in hell, you put yourself in hell. He didn't create hell for you, he created hell for the devil and his angels. Again, we just said it. He came to this earth in love and light, and you rejected him because you're evil. So you said, I don't want to be with you, God. So he said, Okay, for eternity, you don't have to be with me.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah, I think I it's tough for me to like think that I'm evil. I mean, I know I am not perfect, I screw up.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

That that's a great question because most people, when they say that, once again, they're comparing themselves to men. Well, here's the problem with that man's not your judge. So what you're gonna have to do is you have to stand before your judge, and your judge is perfect. And your judge created you to be perfect, and you chose not to be perfect. You know the difference between right and wrong. And so justice says that you must be separate from me. That's just justice. Amen? Is that fair? So if somebody robs a bank, is it just to say, oh, okay, keep going, or you have to go sit in a cell and pay for that?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Right, that is justice. Okay, you pay for that.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

So if Adam's sin wasn't and eating an apple, it was sinning against an eternal God, then the equivalent payment would be eternal punishment, then the only way to justly pay that would have to be someone who's eternal and would suffer for that. It's so funny that there's an eternal God named Jesus who was born of a virgin. You know, these people, and and I do understand I want to have you guys taught me to have more empathy and compassion and say, F you guys, you're so stupid. But if we are trying to believe in a universal, perfect being, won't his story have to be effing crazy? Born of a virgin. Walked perfectly, healed everyone, loved everyone, walked on water, raised the dead, blah blah and then chose to die in his love for everyone, and then say, I'll see you in three days and get out. Isn't that the effing story you would want about a God who's powerful? Then it's too hard to believe. Yeah, too hard. He's God.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah, I know. I mean, some of these answers are really good. I'm just trying to understand, like, I think I I guess it's hard for me to think about friends or loved ones in my life, family members who I have to think they're they're in hell.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, justly they chose to reject him. If you read John 3 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes on him, so it's over would never perish but have everlasting life. So those who believe in the Son have the life. Those who don't believe don't have the life. And so have you ever heard of polio?

SPEAKER_02 19:57

The disease?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

You know how many vaccines there are off of polio? One. So if you don't want to have polio, you go, oh, well, I don't want that way. Well, sorry. This is this will heal you of polio. Have you ever heard, or Mr. Producer as he sits there, of story of any other man, person in history that said, I'm gonna pay for the sins of the world? No. And so this is the only remedy. Clearly, the church, religion, other religions, they tell you you have to work your way by good works. How good do I have to be to get to heaven? Whoops.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Well, that's the thing, like it's it was sin, it's this idea of like sin or right and wrong, like, was that made up by man?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Or do we it's sin or sin is disobedience to God.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Okay, but like we uh like you said, you know the difference between right and wrong. And I I think I uh clearly know the difference between right and wrong sometimes. Um but then there are some things that God says apparently, like that's not good, um, that I don't know if I see how why is it so bad.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

You want to see examples?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Um I I guess it would depend, but like, you know, uh maybe too maybe homosexuality or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

That that that's difficult for us as men and human beings, but I think the practical end of it is that, and and again I don't mean to be mean, but there is something that fits in from a man to a woman, and that God said that this is what a union would be a man and a woman. And so, have you ever heard of Job? The story of Joe? You'll have to tell me. Okay, so he was the most righteous man that ever lived, and he had when I tell you a bad day, this guy lost his children, he lost his land, his his houses, he lost his wealth, and the second day he had boils from. Top of his head, sold his feet. And he began to not think that God was very fair. And so he went through a real long period of time. He had three comforters come who did not help him because unfortunately, sometimes you get comforters who, when you're sick, they tell you about how when they were sick. Well, I don't really need to know about that right now. I'm sick. Those are not real comforters. Those are little narcissistic people that only know themselves. So a young man named Elihu comes on the scene. He said, I waited, I watched you guys. I thought you guys would help him. And I thought wisdom came from age, but I found out wisdom comes from the breath of God. Doesn't matter how old you are. And Job, here is your problem. God is greater than you. So, Alden or unbeliever, at some point we have to be able to say, if you're eternal and you created all this, maybe you're smarter than me. Some point you got to say that. It would be like a three-year-old telling somebody, Hey D, I think I got this. Or a teenager, I got this. And so can you imagine this eternal God? Now, Alden, uh, I want to study it more, but I probably won't. This creation is so vast, and if you studied it, you would bump right into him. You know, they say that the highest mountain range in the world, if you put it in the deepest ocean in the world, it would sink. It's deeper down than it is up. Correct. He created all that. It's unfathomable. And you want to tell him what you think, sometimes you just have to say, okay, you're God. Right. That's what Job had to say.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yes. Impl that would imply that I believe that he created it all. Um and that he's judge of it all.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Right. And that he's running it all, and that he's just and he's fair.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Right. And it's uh it seems hard to believe that at some times with what you see out there and how how devastating, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, you all you see is evil of men.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

And tragic things happening.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Men, show me all the tragic things that God has done.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah, I mean, but even like something as simple as like giving birth to a child that, you know, dies of a sickness early on, and it's like God do that? But it doesn't seem like a man did either.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Why not? Why couldn't sin do that? Why did he not tell us that sin is gonna bring all causes of sickness and disease? So I'll challenge you here. If God did it, then how come no one's gonna be sick in heaven? And no one's sick in heaven now? There's only sickness on the earth.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Well, that's what they say.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Well, so you don't have to believe it. Right. I want to. Well, I'm telling you it's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

So then so to help me with this, what's the what's the the your belief on creation? The story of like how did if you're saying God did this, what's the Bible say about like how we ended up here?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

I'm not a and there are big words for it that I don't know. Yeah, I I really don't know. I know this, brother Alden. This is what I'll tell you. There are two options. One is a divine being, a uh intelligent being, because this takes a lot of intelligence, created this, or it came from nothing. I F and ask you, in your natural mind, what is more feasible? That everything you see came from nothing.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Right. That doesn't seem to make any sense. Like there has some how could nothing, but you know, then I try to come up with my brain. It's like, well, our idea of nothing maybe is just what we don't understand, but why does it have to be this God you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Well, it doesn't have to be my God, it has to be intelligent. Any scientist will tell you, anyone that's looked at this thing, this thing is running itself. This thing has been billions of years old. A man tries to do a lake, the thing drown drains. He's got to refill it. No one's ever had to refill an ocean. This God, um the clouds, the sky, the oxygen, um, the plant life. What I what blows me away is when I go to stopping shop. And I really sometimes get on my knees. I won't say I weep, but where the F does all this food come from? This is one little stopping shop on Long Island. There's food all over the place. Where did it come from? Accidentally, from nothing? And your eyes that you can see accidentally came from nothing. And I believe there's 30 miles of intense intestine inside of you accidentally happened from nothing, or it was intelligently designed.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Sure, I think where I also feel like there must be some kind of God or something is like because even if there was an act, if it was evolution and there was just some microorganism that we started from or whatever, I still don't understand then why I would feel emotionally. Why would I Where does love come from? Why would I feel inclined to love, hate, be angry, be happy? Like it feels like there would be some purpose driven behind that. Absolutely. And so, like, why would that be a few more? Where'd morality come from us?

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Why do you think it's wrong to kill someone? That came from nothing? Some people don't. Some people. But you could say that about anybody. But for the average person has a conscience and a morality. That came from their creator.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Well, that's what I was trying to get at before is like, did it or was that a thing, or was that socially and culturally twisting?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

What I'm willing to say to people, if you want to I saw a good guy, he was so funny. He's like, so you believe everything, either a creator or nothing. You believe in nothing. And so you believe you exist in nothing, and it came from nothing, and it's going back to nothing. And so what happens when you die? And they say nothing. He says, Oh, you go back to your creator. That's just silly.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Anybody with any mind knows that this could not come from nothing. Was it a big bang? I I don't that's God's business. I'm I'm not a scientist. Uh was it Adam and Eve uh created out of dirt, the way he said? To me, it's irrelevant. The story is for me what's relevant. The story is I loved you enough to put you on this paradise. I loved you enough to give it to you all freely. That's another thing. This this is I'm going off really quick. People who don't like to tithe in church, do you pay a mortgage? Yes. Do you know you're living on his earth for free? You aware of that? Yeah. You're eating his food for free. Yeah. You're aware of that? You're breathing his oxygen for free. He never asked you for a penny.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Jason Upton had this song I used to love there. He'd sing.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

And you have a problem with 10% and you give your waitress 20? Go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

He would sing, How long will these renters rule the earth?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah, it's crazy. The earth is the Lord. Everything here is the sheep are his. The cattle are. He created everything. He owns everything. You want to talk about a gracious God? He came unto his own and his own received him not. And he said, It's okay. Well you want me to sleep? A bar on the floor? That's fine. You imagine just today go into your apartment and somebody changed the locks. What would you do? And said, You're not allowed here. Would you go sleep on the curb? You have that much love? He did. His world. His world. His world. So I think, I don't know. If that's what you want to believe in, nothing, that's your choice. But I will challenge you this. Anyone out there. This is how I found him. I asked him to prove himself to me in a jail. And he did. Get up and ask him to prove you're real. Just prove it, Lord. He will. Now you're really responsible.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Now you're responsible. And I will tell you what churches believe. You have to be good. Some churches believe, Brother Alden. Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Yes, sir. That if you sprinkle water on a baby, they're going to heaven. If you don't, they're going to hell. Have you guys lost your mind? I don't want that God. No, that's true. I don't want to be part of that God. That's crazy. I literally know a person who was very close to me in the world, and I know he hated God. And guys, I'm not, he just hated God. He didn't go to church. He died a drunk. And I went to his funeral in a church. That's all I'll say. And they said he's in heaven today, but he got water sprinkled on him as an infant. Does that sound right to you?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

That's what they tell you. And just so you know, in a standard religious church, in the middle, because you really weren't brought up in it, there is a Eucharist. They tell you the center of our church is the Eucharist. Over here is the reading of the Bible. Over here is reading our traditions. They are telling you the center of our church is the Eucharist, and we balance it on the Word of God and the Word of Man. Doesn't sound like a good idea. I don't think so. And so where does everything come from? Man. Man has ruined everything, he has tainted everything, he has lied, he has corrupted, and he has a cohort named the Devil.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

All right. Well, to try to sum that up, then what you're telling me, it sounds like is this is all man's fault. But the only reason it could even be man's fault is because he gave man free will to choose. That's right. Because without giving us free will to choose, then we would just be a created robot that has no That's correct. We're not really loving him. We were just given no choice.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I love that. You know, how'd I do playing uh playing the atheist? Good not bad, right? But it's the truth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

He he is bound by his nature. Yeah. God cannot sin. Yeah. So God cannot love. So God cannot make robots. He's bound by his nature. He cannot lie. He can't. He just can't. And so even if he knew every person would go to hell, no one would go to heaven. He still has to do this plan because it's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And it's just. I we offered it to everybody. If we didn't offer it to anybody, it's not right. It's just. They all rejected it. That's on them now.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I think it was kind of cool. I heard on the diary of a CEO podcast, and they had Wesley Huff on. And he asked about, like, it seems like a setup. Like, why, if God knew that there was going to be, you know, this much pain and hurt and rejection and fall and the and this and the man messing it all up and all that. Uh, and that we all were gonna have to worship God, like why, you know, why would he have done this? And I thought it was interesting what Wesley Huff answered by saying, I think it's more interesting that he did, that he still that he still did it. I think that tells you more if you're looking at it the right way. About his character? Yeah, that he that in so knowing that he must know something that we're not fully comprehending. God must be up to something beautiful. And it's true, he is.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And I'm gonna say this, and people may not like this, and I apologize. But he made it in a way that he had to be worshiped, not because he's ego. If me and you asked for worship, yeah, that's egotistical.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Let's discuss it.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

But God, it's just to not worship him is unjust. Of course. Yeah, it's un and so for all these people, Jesus never said he was God. First of all, you're a thousand percent wrong. I will show you so many scriptures. Literally, they asked him, he said, Yes, I am, probably ten times. But the evidence is when people worshiped him, he didn't stop them. Right, it's just to worship me. That's hard for humans. We don't deserve worship. Maybe some praise, maybe a little honor. Worship is is is befitting.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yes, it's he's deserving him.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

He is author of all life. There is no life apart from him. Yeah, he has brought everything into being which is into being. And so it's absolutely mind-blowing that people would have a problem worshiping him. I adore my wife. And you have a problem worshiping a God? And let me just show you what's so cool for just and and I don't have it all right here, guys. So if I get it a little bit wrong, please bear with me. But this Bible is so it's it so answers just about every important question that it starts this way. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That's what the first verse is. John 1 1 says this in the beginning was the word, and he was with God, and he was God. All things came into being by him, and there's nothing that you see that didn't come to him. If that doesn't tell you Jesus is God, could it be any clearer? Obviously. And for the people that challenge it, guys, what more do you want him to do? He was born of a virgin, he walked as a perfect man. I challenge you to study all history except mythology. This is not mythology. Mythology is fairy tale. All human history to find a man like this. And Muslims, if you get mad at me, I apologize. But the leader of the Muslims had sex with a girl eight years old. You can Google it. It's not a secret. He's their prophet. This, our prophet, was sinless and died on a did Muhammad dying across everybody? You know, the Hindus have thousands of gods. This man God answered every question. And for those who might be cynics, there's a man named Lee Strobel who was a bigger cynic than all of you. And he was a great journalist. And he was a drunk, and he was mean to his wife and his children, and his wife got born again, and he hated her. This is you can Google him too. And he was going to use his journalistic, intelligent mind. Get the F out of here. There's not a chance that any man lived a life like this. And everything he read and studied said is historically accurate. I must serve this man. And he now is a defender because he looked at it objectively, like we've been trying to do. And honestly, every human out there, do you honestly believe that everything was created from nothing? It is every, I believe, what is it, cause and effect. Um what is it? Uh there is a scientific thing that nothing comes from nothing. Okay. So whatever comes here, comes here. It's just, it just, it's, I'm not a scientist, but they they will prove that. Even when you take a scientist who believes in evolution and you keep going with them until they don't have an answer, I don't have an answer. I don't know where it all started. I don't know how it all started. I do. His name is Jesus. The Bible is so clear about that. And on top of that, he's madly in love with everyone, Brother Alden. And that to me is the depth of a love that I cannot comprehend. Yeah. To this day, would you say I have one of the best marriages you've ever seen? Yeah, absolutely. If my wife starts cheating on me tomorrow, it's over. Yeah. I could cheat on God every day. It's never over. That's a love I can't comprehend. Right. The people who were beating him and whipping him, hey Dad, could you forgive them? I can't, I wouldn't forgive Carol Ann. That's a love that's incomprehensible. And when I don't do as much as I used to, but when I have really problems with God. And you know, dude, I don't often understand you. I I don't just I don't like your plan. Who in the world would pay a penalty for someone that would never receive it? That's how much I love them. Yeah, it's incredible. How can you love someone? Because my love doesn't depend on them. Right. My love depends on me. And you've heard me tell this story. If you invited 50 people for a birthday and all 50% back, I can't make it. Would you go out and buy the food? Of course not. He would. Would you cook it? Nope. He would. Would you sit down and wait for everybody? No. He would. He died for all of them. If you've never come, you don't have to come. That's how much I love you. I'm gonna sit here.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Amazing. Incredible. That's a love that's incomprehensible. Yeah. And tell everybody out there, that's how much he loves you. You are not an accident. You were planned before the world was. If you don't believe it, you can read, I believe it's Jeremiah. Before you were in your mother's womb, I knew you and I created you to be a prophet. Every one of you have a divine purpose, plan, and call from God. Yes, this place sucks. Yes, it's painful. Yes, it's traumatic. But let me just tell you, and I've got three people who do, there's a woman named Joyce Myers who started getting raped by her father when she was eight or ten years old. That woman should be put away in a mental institution. That woman is the number one evangelist in America. And here's how I know. On one of the Christian networks, they were saying the following: she has 18 million followers. The second place is eight million. This woman turned this trauma on this earth impossible because she found the love of God in the midst of it. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

That's incredible. All right. You've convinced me.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

So he loves you. He's got a plan for you. He'll never leave you. He'll never forsake you. And we're just going to end and pray for all of you. Amen. So, Lord Jesus Christ, as I challenge all of them to just say, Lord, if you're real, prove it. I'm going to go off on a little tangent. Brother Alden's dad and I did prison ministry, and we were with a man, and maybe he's watching this, and he'll tell you it's true. He said, I've listened to you two men. I guess you're ministers, and I guess you serve God. And I'm a Jewish man, and um I really don't. But I have to be honest with you guys. More than a handful of times I've asked God to prove himself, and every time he did, and I still don't serve him today. That's his testimony. So once you ask him and he proves it, now you're accountable. So Lord, we pray for everyone. We pray for every sick body that right now we arrest it. We declare it's healed by your stripes. We speak it. God, we want to start hearing testimonies of people listening and being healed in the name of Jesus. We want to start hearing testimonies of people who did not know you, who now walk with you, Jesus Christ, and know your love and your forgiveness, your hope and your joy and your eternal life. We don't have all the answers. But he does. And forever and ever, he will show you anything you need. He is the answer to everything in life's problems today. So, Father, we declare healings, we declare salvations, and as we always do, God, we pray for your church that she would be one. Guys, if you're fighting in church, stop it. We're hoping for the day that all churches and believers in Jesus Christ be united. A community of men and women pursuing one purpose, and that is to be the body of Jesus Christ that the earth can see and fulfill the divine prayer of our Lord Jesus, who said, Dad, when they become one, the church, like we're one, that's when the world will know that you sent me. Let's stop fighting with one another and love one another. Let's serve one another. Let's see our marriages healed, our families healed, our churches healed. Let's forget about pain. Let's forgive and love and those greater things that overcome all these things. In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray. And declare that each thing we ask will be done by faith. And so to you and you alone, Jesus, feel honor and glory even before we see anything. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Awesome. Tony, you the best. Love you, love you, love you, love you, love you. He has given his time, his equipment, his knowledge to make this very professional, and we appreciate it. Always. Send your questions, send your topics, come and visit us at Eastgate and just know that God has a great plan for your life. We love you. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. It truly means a lot to us. If you'd like to hear more episodes like this, please subscribe to our channel. It's the simplest and most impactful way to show your support. We'll see you on the next one. And as always, God bless.