Should Women Speak In Church?

In this episode of The Extremely Rational Podcast ("The E.R."), Pastor Anthony and Alden dive into the women of the Bible and the vital role women continue to play in the church, the home, and everyday life. From powerful biblical examples to modern conversations around leadership, influence, and identity, this episode brings thoughtful discussion, honesty, and biblical perspective to an important topic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:45

All right, welcome in, welcome in. This is the Extremely Rational Podcast. Beautiful voice. Thank you. Those teeth, too. Wow, you as well. Yeah. Oh, we may have seen the same dentist.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I look better, but we need like a little thing. This is the Extremely Rational Podcast. My name is Alden Brown, and I'm with PA. Um, so we call it that because PA is pretty extreme. I'm pretty rational in the way that I think things through. Sometimes that flip-flops, but really, in short, we're the ER, extremely rational. We want to be the ER for you, and that just simply means hey, if you need to laugh, if you need um some biblical wisdom, if you need prayer, and if you need some information.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Some are even saying you're an F and Mora. That is clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Open mic segment. So when we dive in.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yep, and I'm feeling good.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

I'm gonna receive it, but I'm also gonna, you know, prove that it's not true. Okay. Um but anyway. Uh uh righty. Um I I've not only proven that, but I've gotten further evidence on why I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

They just passed a uh a law. I saw it. Congress. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

And I'll blow you mine after this podcast because you'll agree. Uh anyway, let's start with the open mic segment, as we always do. And uh it really has just become my segment because you contribute absolutely zero to this.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

You never got an epimor on.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

No, you actually have a lot of unique things to share. Yeah. And one of these days I'm gonna get you to share them.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

But what I'm gonna talk about pretty briefly is that I really thoroughly enjoy inside I enjoy nature documentaries.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Let's go. Not enough yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Right. However, coming. Yeah, however, I I get kind of annoyed by the narratives that they push within these nature documentaries. And it's true. Come on. So, first of all, if you have if you're somebody who loves to watch like Our Planet, I think there's Our Planet 2, you know, David Atmoro uh right, David Attenborough? That's his name. He he he's the voiceover for most, and he's just incredible. Uh, I I don't even know if he's still alive. Point is all of these great animal nature documentaries are so cool. I just love nature.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

So I love your mind. I mean, we have not at all scripted these things. He just comes with this incredible, I would love to call pearls of nothing.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

But you gotta hear me out. Uh so I love for me, it's a goes a well, the narrations are terrible.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

I'm gonna give you examples.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Okay, but I love like falling asleep to them.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Sleep to me. They absolutely absorb my life so much that I go to sleep with them. Way to sell it. I don't sleep with them. I can't sleep with TV. But watch a big baseball game, I love it so much by the seventh day.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Before I go to bed, before I go to bed, I turn them on. And it helps calm me down and put me in a state. But I love watching this stuff, learning about all this wildlife out there, and the footage they get is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

But here's what bothers me certainly, the wildlife for me, sorry for cutting you off, is an incredible illustration of our Lord. Exactly. Most people will say that nature is a second Bible. If you have not found him in his written word, you can see him in this unbelievable creation that could not have accidentally come here. Correct. That was well said by a human being.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, but if you would allow me to finish, you're gonna hear a lot of well-said things uh about these nature documentaries. So, what they love to do is make up nonsense that the viewer just has to have shoveled down their throat like it's reality, and I have a problem with that. You can if you just want a visual, but it's fun to it's actually fun and enjoyable to learn about the these animals and nature. I have a problem when they just speculate and then do just give it to you as it's fact. Science does this all the time too, by the way. Which telling where they'll tell us, like, oh, the earth is is 4.6 billion years old. And then next week they go, oh, so we had it wrong. It turns out there's further evidence now showing that the earth is only the so-and-so old. And then you go, well, why did for the last you know, whatever amount of time you tell us that you know the earth is this old? Stop saying things you don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Because science always thinks they know everything, and then science will tell you when something new comes, we have to say we were wrong. Correct. Because we only had certain amount of data, and so we told you that. Now we have new data.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

So here's what the nature documentaries do. Okay? They so here's an example.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Tell your baboon came from the Ukraine family.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

No, so you'll have like a bobcat, right? And it's out there hunting for a kill, and the thing, you know, finally gets its kill, and then it'll say, like, the the dramatic music comes rolling in, and then they'll be like, and the mother now has to take this its catch its prey all the way back about a mile to its children, and you're like, Alright, and it's on its final reserves of energy, and it might not make it. And you're like, what are you talking about? You're just making that up. He's totally fine too. Yeah, you'll be like, you talking about it. Yeah, you'd be like, first of all, it's not even the mother, it's a male. You know, you're not even right about that. But even if you are, like you just make up this dramatization.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

I wish I could do that voice because I would be. I hope this one gets to Alden. Listen to what we're gonna say. He won't sleep for a week.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I get frustrated by how easily make up stuff to make it dramatic when you to take a look at the city.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Who's an extreme person on this podcast?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

In this instance, it's me right now. But to part two of that is the forcing down our throats evolution and climate change in all of these nature documentaries. I agree with you. You know, the climate has shifted so dramatically because humans are horrible people, and now the polar bears and like there's more polar bears now than there's ever been in history. They're healthier than you're just making up lies to try to force the green narrative down our throat and to try to convince us that evolution that we came from apes. I mean, look, there's definitely been some adaptation that has taken place. Evolution. There has been some through God's creation, yeah, through but like you're trying to push down our throat so that like that's where we originated from. Uh it's so nothing. I could give you some Bible verses. It's annoying. And I want to enjoy these nature documentaries because they're so confessive.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

To be fools, and they're so educational.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

To be wise, they become fools. But they're so educational and watching those fools in so many ways and just watching what they do. It'd be nice to have them not make up nonsense. Yeah, not should happen. You know, people will always have agendas down our throat.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

People will always be fools. Let me tell you how I know that. A perfect God came and they killed them. People are fools. Don't listen to them. Come to my Bible class, we deduce that God is good and man sucks. Amen. So everything that's good here is from God, everything that's bad is from men, and we all suck. I don't struggle with that.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

I also have questions on how they get some of this footage. Yeah, that's cool. I I do like that. Because like they'll they'll be they'll show of an animal go into its burrow and then their camera's in the burrow. Yeah, well, I think it's how'd they get the thing down there? I don't know. One to two and how are they affirming this stuff? And it's like I I'm just amazed by a lot of it. I have questions about a lot of it. I don't trust a lot of it, but I am definitely enamored enough to tune in. I like nature documentaries. Me too. Just wish they'd shut their mouths and on a lot of nonsense at the time. Anyway. Then I miss out on the soothing voice of David Adborough.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

I miss the soothing voice that perturbs you.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, that's true. I also miss out on uh a lot of educational things that are just simply factual. Yeah. That are real, you know. So they just mix it.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Maybe you are an F and moron. Maybe. Maybe that's the conclusion to this segment. I'll have to sit on it. Right in and uh vote if uh Walden is an F and moron. I think that's gonna be an easy vote. I got one yay. Yeah. Uh I don't know. I got two Yay's. Oh my god. Ah, Tony says no. Woo! Beautiful. I would like to talk about if it's okay. Yes. Um first of all, we're going on uh I believe we're gonna try to do 19 through 21 today shows, which is pretty epic. Yeah. Um nationally, we're probably in the top five percent who are still running.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

What you mean by that is that yes, as a podcast like 98% of people who start a podcast never get to episode 21.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Correct. Correct. Yes. Um, but you had informed me that we might have touched this topic before, but uh uh what we're trying to do, guys. So if you can know, we're trying to find things that are hot. You know, I am an old man, and so I don't Instagram, monogram. So I have no problem to shooting out to Pastor Stephen, Eastgate Church, who uh is helping me have some hot topics. Because I'm just that's just not what I do. And what people are what the buzz is, what people are talking about. And so they're beginning, he said very, very hot, whether or not women should speak or preach in church.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Love it. Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

To me, if I could initially say, if you are a born-again Christian and you believe your God doesn't want anybody to speak, show anybody you don't know your God.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

So Brother Walden, can you read that first verse in Galatians? So what we're gonna do, Walden, we're gonna build a very good foundation of our God and women in the history of his church. Then we're gonna address those two verses, what they might mean. And we hope we bless you today. Go ahead, Walden.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Do you want a specific version?

SPEAKER_03 10:21

No, I I do New American Standard, that's up to you.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Well, I have an English standard version here. Let's just say fine, go for it. Galatians 3, 28. What does it say? It says, there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free. There is I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

If you can you go to 27, or you only had 20. Yeah. Because it's about being baptized into the channel.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah, for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Talking about the body of Christ.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

No male or female. So our God is an equal opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Do you know that people take that scripture there, though, and that's where they make their gender case, that they'll say that the Bible says that there's no male or female.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah. And so people can do that. That's nonsense. Of course it is. It's way out of contact. He's teaching us about the unity that God is not a bigot, that God does not divide, that his family is one. And he loves us all equally. And uh so based on that, um, I'm going to present a case do on women not only preaching, but we're gonna find apostles, we're gonna find them in the craziest places, I think. Do you know that your Lord was dedicated? Do you know he was dedicated in a temple, which is a church, then? And do you know that a woman spoke at his dedication? How can a God say that women can't speak when God had a woman speak at his son's dedication? It doesn't make any sense to me. This is the Lord being brought in to be dedicated. Luke 2, 36 through 38.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And there was a prophetess, Anna.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Prophetess. You know what that means? Let me get my glasses on. A female who speaks under divine supernatural influence and can foretell future. That's a prophetess.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah, the daughter uh Anna, the daughter of Fanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin, and then as a widow until she was eighty-four, she did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day, and coming up at the very hour, she began to give thanks to God and to speak to him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

So a woman spoke at Jesus' dedication inside a temple. Pretty awesome. To me, now this is my bright redness. I don't need anything else. It's it's very simple. God just made it very simple. But because of scriptures, and because of people, and because sometimes people, my wife says, that for me the scriptures are very simple and that um when I read them, and other people have said you have the strongest mind I've ever seen, whatever God says you do, that's me. It's very simple for me. But for some people it's not, we're gonna build our case very strongly. Yeah. But again, for me, and I'm I'm gonna go off on a little tangent. Um when I hear that Jesus Christ was prophesied probably 500 years that a virgin would have a child. If a virgin has a child, I'm done. Guys, I don't need anything else. A virgin had a child. That must be God. Yeah. I'm so so. What more do you need, guys? I agree. Then he walks perfectly, then he heals everyone, then he dies, then he gets out of a grave. That's that's number two. Then people get out of a grave with him. You need more? Let me see that in the Hindus, let me see that in Months, let me see that. You're never gonna find it. This man has so much evidence, but we want to build it up because some people feel I would like the full biblical counsel, everything God says. So we're gonna do that. So we're gonna go to Acts 2. Anyone know what Acts 2 is? Acts 2 is the birth of the New Testament church. Let's go. The power of the Holy Spirit falling. And I'll set it up a little. When it happened, they fell out speaking in other tongues, in other languages, glorifying God. And there were probably hundreds of thousands, it was definitely tens of thousands of people watching this. I saw so many people come to our church and see people falling out. What the freak does this mean? That's what they say. They literally say, What does this mean? And uh, Peter gets up and tells them, through an Old Testament, I believe, 500-year-old prophecy, what God said this means. Please and thank you.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

All right, so it's Acts 2, 12 through 21. Do you want me to just read all that? Please. All right, and you jump in whenever you want. And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, what does this mean?

SPEAKER_03 15:18

I think I just said that.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yep. But others mocking said they are filled with new wine.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Can I just again just touch that? I started drinking when I was twelve. Really one of the most effed up people you ever met. In all of my intoxication, I never learned a language except something that was not able to be understood. These people were speaking languages that the people of that language understood.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yeah, I think it's even more spiritually remarkable because what I think believe, and you correct me if I'm wrong, I think what was happening is they are uttering things out of their mouth that a let's just use exam. That a Spanish-speaking person is hearing in Spanish while simultaneously the English-speaking person is hearing it in English. 100%. So whatever is coming out of their mouth is so clearly spiritual. It is uh it's it's a miracle.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

And that's why it's not there, but it's so amazing how men will see a demonstration of the supernatural and then sometimes, I'm sorry, say the most foolish thing. That's the most effed up thing in the world. Nobody drunk can do this. Right, exactly. I got high for half of my life. Nobody learned a language. And certainly the language didn't glorify God. Not a chance. So please.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them. As you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. So he didn't say they're not drunk, did he? Yeah, just not as you think that's a good one. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

So we can be drunk in the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

I've seen you.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah, I've I've experienced it. Yeah, it's a wild encounter with the Lord, and it is nothing better. It's beautiful. But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel. Verse 17. And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. On who? All flesh. All. And did he make any specifics? Well, he says, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

So how can a daughter prophesy if she's not allowed to speak in church? Well, she'll have to do it outside the four walls. And why? Go ahead, please. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

And your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. Even on my male servants and female servants, in those days I will pour out my spirit.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Doesn't it seem unusual to you all then? Please see. Why is he specifically saying those things? Why didn't you he already said all flesh?

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, I think in that era back then, women were met as less than.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I'm gonna say this right now. Yeah. On camera. Right. I live I don't can't say where I live. I live in Levittown. It's a big town. To this day. Once a month I see a man and his wife walking down my block and she's ten feet behind him. I don't think that's a coincidence. I'm not gonna say anything else. That's weird. And they're not American. Oh wow. Oh wow. Okay. So some of these things still persist. Oh, definitely. Can I give you a nice little fact? My wife and I have been watching double uh I say it all the time, Final Jeopardy, I love it. Okay. And so the question was, and and I could have it wrong, but it and I can have some of my facts wrong, but I what I'm trying to say is not wrong. In 1840 or 1850, which would be a little less than a hundred years, 1776, we became and the Declaration of Independence. They added something, two words. And uh I believe it starts we hold these uh truths to be self-evident, that all men were created equal. Yeah, can you imagine what they added almost a hundred years later? And women. So for the first almost hundred years, women weren't even considered equal in this incredible nation. That it's hard for us. Yeah. And I'm glad it's hard for us. Thank God it's hard for us. But this is the world. So can you imagine what the world was like 2,000 years ago? Jesus speaking to the woman at the well, they almost had a heart attack. We don't talk to women, they're dogs, they're animals. They're not equal to us. The the Phariseic historic prayer, factual. He would wake up in the morning and say, Good morning, God. I thank you that I am a Jew and not a Gentile, a man and not a woman. That was their prayer to God.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

That's wild.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Men suck. When they get involved in the things of God, when they get involved in anything, they ruin it. But they can even ruin the things of God because we suck. And God loves everyone equally. Please continue.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Okay, verse 19. And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke, the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon to blood before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

There's another equal. Our God is equal. God loves everyone equal. His spirit falls upon everyone equal. Now, is there order? Absolutely. Yeah, of course. I I'll just throw it out maybe another time. Is the man the head of the house? Absolutely. Does that mean he's better than the woman?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Oh, definitely not. It just made us differently. That's all. We're made differently.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

But even more than that, if you want to fight it, Pastor Stephen just preached, who is the greatest in the kingdom? The least. So the servant. So if the woman is the servant in the house, well, guess who wins? Yeah. According to the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

They're greater. I've always thought of it like this, and maybe I'm wrong, but I've always thought when you know the Lord saw, you know, created man and then saw that the man needed help, help needed help, he created woman. I thought, well, that like automatically they're better. Like I we men couldn't do it alone. Like it was like we're we weren't good enough alone. Absolutely. And so we needed uh we needed someone better to come along and help us out. And that's it.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

I know in my home, if it was a contest, better or worse, my wife gets a 10 and I get a two. I'm giving myself a two. She's a much better person. Person than me. It's not even close. It's the truth. It's a thousand percent true. And but she's made me a better man. And one day I'll tell that story. So, I mean, uh to me, I don't need any more, but let's have a little more. Acts 21, 8 and 9, please.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Here we go. All right. On the next day, we departed and came to I don't know how to say that. Ca Caesarea.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Caesarea.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Caesarea. And we entered the house of Philip, the evangelist, who was one of the seven.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

So when it says one of the seven, it means the first deacons ever picked into church.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Got it. He was one of them. Alright, and we stayed with him. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. Really?

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Now Why do you think that might be? And if you don't know, because I am putting on the spot, we do not practice any of this stuff. So why do you think he had four daughters that prophesied? Because it's gonna help us when we understand the scriptures of when he says women should be silent. So if women were for the most part considered dogs and women for the most part were silent, why does this evangelist have four preachers in his home? Because he probably trained them.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

He taught them. And so that's what we're gonna find out, what Paul was saying. But we're gonna we're gonna have a little more fun. Uh Romans 16, I believe, one through seven. And we're gonna go slow. This is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

All right. I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Centria.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Okay, can I just tell you that word servant? Yeah. Again means deaconess or preacher. Guys can all get a strong concordance and look it up. Okay. So he's calling this first woman a deacon or a preacher. Number one. Okay. Please.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Verse two, that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well. Greet Prisca and Aquila, excuse me, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who risk their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but all the churches of the Gentiles give thanks as well. Greet also the church in their house. Greet my beloved So it looks like they were co-pastors or husband and wife pastors.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Number two.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

I don't know how to say this name. Um, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia. Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Greet I don't know what Mary did, but I think she's a woman. Sure sounds like it.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Greet Andronicus and Junior, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, they are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

And so that's another woman. Another translation calls her an apostle. Wow. So they have four different women that Paul are thanking. Three of them he's calling ministers. Yeah. And so it makes absolutely no sense why Paul would say women can't speak. So we have to, and I want to do one more, and then we're gonna set it up. Uh 2 Timothy 1.5. Because Timothy's gonna have a part in this. And what you're gonna find out about Timothy is so cool that I don't think a lot of people know. Okay. And you can look all these up historically, googly, they will tell you what I'm gonna tell you. I love Googly. Googly.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Second Timothy 1.5 says, I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and now I am sure dwells in you as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

So it sounds like his mom and his grandma mentored him. That's what it sounds like to me. Yeah. So that they had the Spirit of God. It was in grandma, and grandma brought it to mom, and mom, and they brought it to you. Yeah. So these are women training a pastor, a young man. Seems like it. And so we're gonna go through the two verses. And again, Wilder, if you have any questions, um 1 Corinthians 14, 34-35.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

So what if you are being objective as you can?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Pastor Anthony, you just showed me so clearly women speaking in church. And this same guy writing to women speaking in church and talking about a deacon's daughter who speaks in church, what possibly could cause him to say you can't speak in church? Because it seems a little hypocritical, seems a little uh contradictory. Contradictory. What could be going on?

SPEAKER_02 26:14

I don't know, you gotta tell me.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

That women were not allowed in church. And so they had no idea the order of church. It still happens today. I I I have a Bible study that's grown from five to ten people to now a hundred people, and people just start shouting out. Uh guys, you can't do that. With five to ten, it was but with a hundred, it can't happen. There has to be an order. And so the women were yelling, what's going on? Man, the Holy Spirit's falling. They don't, they've never seen any of these things. The cool part about it says, if they want instruction, let them go home and learn. That's what Philip probably did with his four daughters. He taught them at home how to move in church. There is really, and there is another place, and I I didn't want to bring it up, but but it's absolutely in there. Because it talks about the covering of women's head, and and it just gets people so confused. But he it's in the same letter. He literally says to them, if you're going to speak in church, he literally says that, prophesy in church. Literally, make sure your head's covered. I thought I can't speak in church. And so it's clear that some women who have been taught, instructed, or are gifted, can all of you will be able to when you get proper instruction. You just got brought in. The best way to explain it, you've been a minister in our house, you've been in the house of the Lord half your life, ministering probably the about the same time. Do we let somebody, if they come come to my Bible class Friday night, start leading in church?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Of course not.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

They need to be instructed. Yeah, that's what they're saying. These women have just never been in church. So they need instruction. Yeah. Um they need correction, they need to learn the order of church. And really, there's another place that Paul says, don't ever lay hands on anyone quickly, which gives people time to grow and to understand the kingdom of heaven. Does that make sense? It does.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

I think what's challenging for people is that so much of scripture is clearly contextual for a letter given to a certain church at a certain moment. And we as the believer, we as the Christian, we consume it as a thing that the Lord would declare for now, and it's right to, and then there are times when it's not right to where that's this. And that that's a difficult thing to uh decipher. And uh, you need uh for me at least, I need help from those who understand scripture at a greater level to understand that because I think it is easy to read that scripture just as it is and go, well, clear it, there it is, it's as plain as day. So can't be a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Number one principle was the Bible written to you? Was the literal Bible written to you? You weren't even born for people, oh God's no, you it wasn't. It's applicable to you, big difference. Right. So to get the major contextual definition, who was it written to? Pull out the principles and then apply them to your life. You cannot say this was written to me. You'll you'll you'll you'll make a lot of errors.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Yeah. I I just think what sometimes there is there are scripture examples that was, you know, Paul saying a specific thing to a specific church, but that scripture you can take and go, that is so powerfully said, I can apply that right to my life right here in the middle of the day. One, but this is one of those where you can't take that and you can and that's tough for people. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

But I'm gonna give you another one that maybe again, we don't script any of this. We have a verse that says, I pray above all things that you would prosper and be in health. And people say, Paul wrote that to a man. He didn't write that to you. I didn't say you can't apply it. Don't tell me is your name Gaius? He said, Gaius, yeah, I pray above all things, Gaius, you would prosper and you would be in health even as your soul prospered. And he spoke it over him. He spoke over the Macedonian. You and your household would be saved. Yeah. Does that mean he told you that? That you and you can say I'm taking that, but you can't say he said that to me.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

You can't. You're not a Macedonian jailer. People get so upset at that, but it's just that's he wrote the Bible was written to specific people for and guess what happened? The Macedonian jailer, they all got saved. The centurion, when he said you and your house will get saved, they all got saved that day. Did your house get saved that day? It's silly. I know. But you can say what he's done for one, he'll do for me. Yeah. By faith, what I'm gonna apply it, but that you're so taking scriptures out and saying that God said that to me. He did not. Amen. He did not. We can learn from it. Yeah. If you want to grow um and prosper, make sure your soul is prospering. Amen to that. All right, so now we're gonna have fun with Timothy. So and the other thing, Corinthian church was whacked. Yes. You've heard me say it a million times. Galatians is six chapters, and Ephesians is six chapters, and Colossians. These guys got sixteen. They were everything was error in Corinthians. They were fighting with it. He was correcting everything, including the women screaming.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

But why didn't he write it in Ephesus? Why didn't he write it in Colossians? Why didn't he write it? Didn't need to. So, but this one's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

All right, Second Corinthians.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

No, 2 Timothy, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Sorry, yes. First Timothy 2, 11 through 12. 1 Timothy chapter 2, verse 11 and 12. Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, rather, she is to remain quiet.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Now, this one's a little stronger. Now, do you know what church Timothy was pastor of? Galatians? Uh no, I don't know. Ephesus. And this is very historic. Everyone can look this up. There, it still may be there today. I I I don't want to talk. Um there's a thing called the Temple of Artemis. The Ephesians people believed a woman goddess fell from the sky. They worshipped her. All women served her. They didn't serve men. Men were, in a sense, hated through this woman. You can, you know, and I you can read it yourself. I don't want to go on too long. But Paul, when he was ministering there, they were furious because the blacksmiths and all the people who made these idols said, this freaking guy, Jesus is right, we're gonna be out of business. Though most of the city depended on this woman. And so men in this, in this one area were looked down by the women. And because of this goddess whom they worshiped. And this is all scriptural. You can look it up, you can go into Ephesians, you can go into the book of Acts, you can see it. And so Paul was directly dealing with a problem that wasn't everywhere else. Right. This was the goddess. Some of them brought the gospel, but this was the place that her temple was. Again, I Googled it today. I was like, this is incredible. And so, because of that, it was a specific thing that Paul was dealing with.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

That's good. Um I think one of the questions that people maybe have about women speaking in church or preaching in church goes to the extent of how do we feel about a woman pastoring a church, solo pastoring a church.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

I'm sorry, you're done. Yeah. It would never be solo if she's married. Correct. Okay. And so that's number one. But if she isn't. But if she isn't, it's a this is what I'll say to that. I believe Jesus said when they were worshiping him, and the and the people commanded them to stop. He said, if they don't, I'll get rocks too. I believe God, if he has a man for every city, if that man's not willing to do it, he'll get whoever he needs. You ever heard of Catherine Kuhn? Sure have. Catherine Kuhn said to her dying day that this ministry that I have, God had for many men, but they were not willing to pay the price that I was. So if we want to say that God would choose a man first, I'm not gonna fight about that. Um not because the women are lesser, um, men are uh the heads of the house. Right. So for that order, but I would say that if he couldn't find someone, he will use a woman. And I also will say every lead pastor, even if he's a man, he's doing it with his wife. She's lead pastor too.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah, I agree. And I think that it's hard. Maybe it's not hard for people because they see things differently. I don't know. But it I it feels difficult for me to avoid the clear evidence of so many women today having powerful, unbelievable and influence for the gospel for Christ uh through their ministries. Now, most of these women do not pastor a church, but they are being used of the Lord because they speak in church, whether it be prophetically, educationally.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

You know the number one evangelist? I'm gonna say in the world, but definitely in America.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah, it's uh it's Joyce Meyer.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

And you know how many followers she has? Millions. 18 million. You know who's in second place? I don't either, but he has six million. Wow. This is the most powerful evangelist, Christian speaker, and uh she's a woman. It's foolish for me. I'm so sorry, guys. Well, write in, do whatever you want to. Yeah. You know, most people say, oh, she's a devil. You know, when I go online, she's a devil, they're a devil, Joel Olsen's a devil. This one, everyone's a devil. If they don't do it our way and say it our way. You know, I won't say their names. And I you know, we're we're not afraid to talk honestly here. You know, uh, I know Beth L has had some scandals. They had well, I guess you could say that. They're very light, yes. Okay, okay. So, but they've had an incredible ministry. Yes, changing their city, this nation, maybe even the earth. And there are conservative Christians that say they're devils. That if they saw the way you move for an hour and a half in the Holy Spirit, they would have said that was a devil. If they saw a hat on your head in church with ripped jeans, you're a devil. I'm so sorry. But that's the body of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

And we had the honor to see um Bill Johnson, I believe that's his name. Yep. He was attacked by these conservative, I'm not gonna say any name, and called him a demon and everything. And this is how he handled it. And he said this publicly. The first thing I know is that they are great men and women of God. Not even attacking them. Second thing, after I'm done praying for my family and my children, I pray for their family and their children. That's how he addressed it. That's a Christian. Yeah, it is. Instead of attacking and tearing, is loving and building up. So, guys out there, we believe that certainly now, 2,000 years later, women are well equipped to lead, to pastor, to speak, to be any part of the fivefold. Um, it may be rarer. Um, that's okay. I think it still is a male-dominated world. That's part of it. Uh, if a hundred years after our constitution they had to add end women, I believe they didn't even get the right to vote till 1930. Think of that 160 years later. They weren't allowed to play golf at Augusta until 2012. So, because it's a man's world. But we'll we'll end where we started, where Galatians said, if you've been baptized, if you're part of the body, then you're not a slave, you're not free, yeah, you're not a man, you're not a woman, you're not a Jew, you're not a Gentile, you're one. That's the way God looks at us as one. Want to pray us out? I'd love to. Lord, we love you.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

We thank you for women. We thank you for our helpmates. We thank you for the power, the the grace, the love, the uh all that you do to use them and to uh empower them more and more, God, to be a blessing for your kingdom and to our uh communities, to our churches, to our people, Lord. You're you're amazing. And we love you and we honor you, and Lord, we just want to lift up to anybody right now uh that's got pain in their body, anybody that's dealing with sickness, anybody that needs healing in any way, whether that be spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, Lord, we pray right now that you would heal. You are the healer. By your stripes, we're healed. And so we just call on you to come and touch and heal and set free and deliver. Lord, do what only you can do. We love you, we honor you, we praise you, and we just pray, Lord, that you would fully have your way in and through us in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

I just want to add for my wife. Yeah. I know I would not be where I am as a as a person, forget about a minister. She's the best Christian I've ever met. She supported me, she's loved me. Besides Jesus Christ, she's the strength of my life. I want to honor her, and I want to honor all women who serve in that capacity to not be seen, to support. And I want to honor all people who serve to not be seen, to support, as Tony's doing here in the background. Those are the people that God says are the greatest in his kingdom. Carolyn, I love you. I appreciate you, and God, I thank you that you sent me uh the greatest helpmate for me, that we could become one in you and change the world for you. So the last thing we do, anybody who doesn't know Jesus Christ today, ask him into your heart. He loves you, he's got a plan for you. We have service, Eastgate Church. You can smuggl us, Google us. We have a Bible class, we have things every single night. God is exploding in our church. He loves you and he's got a great plan for your life. Amen. Amen. Tony, we love you. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. Bam.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. It truly means a lot to us. If you'd like to hear more episodes like this, please subscribe to our channel. It's the simplest and most impactful way to show your support. We'll see you on the next one. And as always, God bless.